Re: New forum topic - Open Control
Feb 20, 2002 2:46 pm, by Curt Wuollet
Text :
You are measuring us with their yardstick again. With closed software you have to talk to the authors and bring a Visa card. With Open Source projects the number of folks that can help you out is greatly expanded. And while there is the potential for consulting for the authors, I don't think anyone is depending on your dollars down the road. As the user base expands there will be a community of users that can help each other. It's kinda like this list, you say "how do I do such and such" and other users can help you out. I would say at least in the early stages, there will be a high percentage of users who understand the source as well as the authors. There is no reason not to tell you whatever you want to know. OSS people tend to be eager to help from my experience so far. And the community will be waiting 24x7x365, no credit card needed.

> Open systems are produced on a program today and consult tomorrow model.
> Which is fine. They serve a purpose. For those of us who want to take that
> risk and take the open system as my own. But if I get into trouble and need
> any assistance I have to call the authors where every they may be and pay
> them (sounds like an annuity to me.).

Who has mentioned money?

> Much like hiring the folks at red hat
> to answer my questions about Linux IT technology. This is where I actually
> end up paying for this product. And because the authors do not get paid per
> installation they charge me by the hour. One simple phone call and I can
> exceed the enter cost of a Koyo PLC plus the $500.00 program them all
> software package. The free plc is free if you can get it to work by
> yourself. This is a very large risk to short term (1 month) projects like
> installing production machines.

I have been very impressed with the help I get on OSS projects and I have never been hit up for money, although I did trade a card once to get a driver written. You still don't get it, this is not a business. Most of us have a job we do for money, I do LPLC stuff to accomplish a goal and make the automation world a better place for me and others to work in.

> The Linux RT OS for long term projects like designing a product is awesome.
> But the product designer is still setting up his or her business to take
> tech support calls.
>
> AB, Modicon, GE, Seimens, Automation Direct, all sell logic boxes. There are
> very slight differences between the technologies. But they all have staff
> that backs what they sell. That is the only reason why people buy off the
> shelf PLCs. A free PLC OS cannot stand all by itself to the end user
> market. If people really wanted to make a free PLC they could have bought a
> Z-World controller and programmed the whole thing themselves. Or used open
> DOS with a device net card.

You will have a community that backs you up. And you can back yourself up If it's broken you can fix it. If an executable gets corrupted you can recompile. If software that once worked stops working that should fix it. Hardware problems on PC platforms can be economically fixed by putting the drive in another machine or swapping cards. This is ususally much faster than the commercial alternatives. And no muzak on hold or dialog with someone who asks you how many wires are sticking out the back and tells you you need the latest version.

> On top of it all you have over 100000 sales folks stepping into the design
> meetings every day plugging a product. Having been one I would almost
> guarantee you that the first line out of their mouths will be about the lack
> of tech support for this product.

I agree with this, the loss of control over you scares the hell out of them. But, if you believe everything a salesman says........

The web you say? Who on the web.

The Mat project of course, specifically the users list.

> The people they are selling to do not have vast C programming knowledge and have
> better things on their hands to do then hope someone answers their email for
> free.

Yeah, like hoping you will get a meaningful helpful answer when you pay for it. Instead of "we don't support that version anymore, you need the latest and the 15 in between. What was that Visa number?"

>Finally if the system they selected is not working for their
> application then they go and purchase another one from another vender.
>
> The only thing that can replace the established PLC as a true mass scale
> alternative is another PLC/Automation company.

I think the last thing we need is more functionally identical closed systems.

> So go team FreePLC. Program for us the next gen open logic system. We need
> more competitors. Then maybe someone will box it up and support it with a
> business. I will bet though that after the first 10 calls about how the
> customer hooked up the unit to a 3 phase welding transformer the price will
> go up.

Hardware sales would be enhanced, but I don't see where there would be a software problem.

> Regards all.
>
> Greg Schiller
> Automatica Inc.

Regards

cww
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